Edited by Jim Ayres
P.E.
Summer 2008
County Design Systems
Software Survey
(Survey
from
Oct. '07)
Here is sample summary in graphical form of just some
of the questions that we surveyed the counties on. If you work for a
Washington State County and would like a copy of the full report then email
me and I will get one sent out to you.
Regards,
Jim
As you can see from this last slide, training and
support ranks highest on the level of importance as the main barrier if
counties were to replace their existing software.
This just in from Eagle Point
Corporation..."Over the course of the last year, we
evaluated our Subscription Programs. As part of this evaluation process, we
conducted surveys with our clients regarding their respective plans. Based
on that feedback, we are implementing changes to all of our Subscription
Programs."
"Previously, a part of our Subscription Plans, we
shipped CD's each quarter throughout the contract period. As reflected in
the feedback from our clients, as well as our research, we are reducing the
quantity of CD's that we send on an annual basis".
"We feel this change
will benefit you by:
-
Providing the same number of enhancements,
updates within the year without the quarterly installation and rollout
overhead.
-
Having the CD releases coincide with the
release of new CAD Platforms and Operating Systems".
Eagle Point has announced that they have recently formed a relationship
with Autodesk as an Independent Software Vendor (ISV). I have
attached their latest release and for more information just click
on this link:
Eagle Point as Autodesk Vendor News
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Eagle Point's bundled AutoCAD Civil 3D solutions
speed adoption and prepare your organization to
harness the power of the industry-proven,
dynamic engineering model at the core of Civil
3D!
-
Get defined workflows that walk you through
common surveying tasks
The Pinnacle
Series Task Navigator for Civil 3D
dramatically improves your organization's
ability to implement AutoCAD Civil 3D by
providing you with defined workflows with
step-by-step instructions for common, every
day surveying and design tasks that team
members can use immediately.
-
Get toll-free technical support for fast
response to your questions
Eagle Point's
technical support for Civil 3D is designed
for organizations that require telephone
support during normal business hours Monday
through Friday. You receive toll free access
to civil engineers and surveyors for fast
and reliable technical support.
-
Get hands-on, interactive training to
increase skills and productivity
Eagle Point's
Civil 3D training and implementation
services offer you the expertise you need
and the interactive, hands-on sessions that
provide step-by-step instruction on Civil
3D. Choose from regional training classes
for beginners, intermediate users and
advanced users; customized on-site training;
or on-line interactive training.
Click here to increase your productivity
with AutoCAD Civil 3D or contact us at
1-800-678-6565.
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Latest Eagle Point
Info |
Important information
regarding version numbering system changes for Eagle Point
Civil/Survey 2001 clients.
Important
CD Release Information!
RECENT CHANGES TO THE
DISTRIBUTION PROCESS FOR ALL FUTURE SOFTWARE RELEASES.
With the new contract with Eagle Point, CRAB has now taken on the task of
distributing the CD releases directly from our ftp site to each of the
sublicensed counties. The CD’s will no longer be sent out in snail mail, so
all counties using Eagle Point will now need to download the new releases
from our FTP site. You will still need the legal authorization codes on the
computer that your downloading this folder to so this will insure Eagle
Point of no illegal copying of their software.
We hope this new
way of distribution will insure that all counties get their upgrades without
any disruption. So if haven’t already done so, I would encourage you to
download the latest CD folder from our ftp site and give a try to see how
this new way of distribution works for you.
Here is the
link to the Eagle Point folder for you download the new software version:
ftp://ftp.crab.wa.gov/DesignSystems/Eagle_Point_Software/
(Then just pick the CD release folder that you want to download i.e.
2008.Q1.Release 8.1.0.)
Keep in mind these two rules when you download;
1) Copy the folder directly to your local hard drive and run the executable
file from that location and not from your network. If you try to run from
the network it will not recognize the executable.
2) If your
county is on dial up or your internet gets busy during high usage, then it
could take an incredible amount of time to download the files so they either
have to do the downloading late at night or I will have to burn cd's just
for these folks (hopefully there will only be a minor amount of these
issues).
Feel free to
provide me feedback both good and bad with your experience so that I can
make this new distribution method as painless as possible for all. For more information you can contact me or Bob Davis, our IT
specialist, at bob@CRAB.wa.gov
Regards,
Jim
Current Versions of Eagle
Point and CAD
TOP of PAGE
Current EP Version/Patch update: EP 2008 Q2
Revision: 8.1.0
Eagle Point has released the 8.1.0 Patch for its Civil/Survey/LANDCADD
product suite. 5/23/08
REGARDING COMPATIBILITY WITH AUTOCAD 2009, RECEIVED THIS RESPONSE DIRECTLY
FROM EAGLE POINT CORP. 4/1/08.
"As Acad 2009 Map official release/ship date is not for another week, April
8th, we do not officially support it yet. Our timeline is to have our
compatible release in early May. The version will be the 8.1.0 or 8.2.0,
which will be the next release after the version you have. Over the past
year we released our Pinnacle series of software and SMI 2008 (which used
virtually all our internal development resources, and are just finishing our
internal restructuring for development and enhancement track for the rest of
our software."
SO THERE YOU GOT IT, STRAIGHT FROM THE SOURCE!
Here is the link
to CRAB's FTP site to the Eagle Point folder for you to download the new
software version:
ftp://ftp.crab.wa.gov/DesignSystems/Eagle_Point_Software/
(Then just pick the CD release folder that you want to download i.e.
2008.Q1.Release 8.1.0.)
Patch Updates:CRAB Design Systems Support Program recommends that you wait to install
the CD from our FTP site rather than downloading and applying the patch. Our VIP status is maintained via installation of the software that is
delivered on the CD. The patch does not do so. If you install the software
patch, you will also need to "re-install" the software from the CD
in order to keep our VIP status current.
Periodically,
Eagle Point releases patch updates to the Eagle Point Civil/Survey/LandCADD
product lines. These patches contain enhancements as well as fixes for
reported defects.
Eagle Point has released the 8.1.0 Patch for its
Civil/Survey product suite. 5/23/08
For users currently running 2007 7.2.0, you may download this file at:
ftp://ftp2.eaglepoint.com/weblinks/Patches/EGPT/Year2008/080520_8-1-0.exe
Additionally, this patch (and others listed below) can be downloaded from
the Eagle Point Website at:
http://www.eaglepoint.com/support/patches/EGPT/current.htm
http://www.eaglepoint.com/support/patches
ftp://ftp2.eaglepoint.com/Patches/Egpt/Year2007
For users currently running other versions, please visit
Eagle Point's web site at http://www.eaglepoint.com/support/patches/civil
for more information.
Current
Patches: For the latest
information on Software Patches from Eagle Point, go to their download
site to get their latest and greatest patch. To be informed
of upcoming releases, subscribe to Eagle Point's update list by sending
a blank email to join-epupdates@lists.eaglepoint.com.
Or, if you belong to this list and wish to unsubscribe, send a blank
email to remove- epupdates@lists.eaglepoint.com.
*CRAB's
master list of all the CIVIL/SURVEY modules licensed through Eagle Point includes the
following:
RoadCalc, Profiles, Site Design, Surface Modeling, COGO, Data
Collection, Data Transfer, Drafting, Surface Modeling, Survey
Adjustment, Sanitary Sewers, Storm Sewers, Water Surface
Profiling, Watershed Modeling.
- Intel Pentium based processor (1.7 GHz
or faster)
- Microsoft Windows NT4.0, Windows 2000,
Windows XP (Home or Professional), Windows Vista (Basic, Premium,
Ultimate, Business, Enterprise)
- 512 Megs of RAM (1GB + recommended)
- 200 MB free hard drive space (+55 MB if
installing On-line Manuals)
- 150 MB free disk swapping
- 800 x 600 VGA video display (1024 x 768
recommended)
- A mouse or digitizer device compatible
with Windows
- CD-ROM drive (for initial installation)
- One, Two or Three of the supported CAD
Systems
- AutoCAD 2000, 2000i, 2002, 2004, 2005,
2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
- Autodesk Map 4/2000, 2000i, 5, 6, Map
2004, 3D 2005, 3D 2006, 3D 2007, 3D 2008, 2009
-
AutoCAD Civil 3D 2009 is now a supported CAD engine by Eagle Point.
NEW
- MicroStation SE, J, V8, XM
- BricsCad 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 7.0,
7.1
Update Instructions Before you
download the update you should first determine which version you are
currently running. You may do this by completing the following steps:
- Start Eagle Point
- Select
the About button on the Open dialog box.
- Once
you have determined which update(s) you need,
simply click on the update and save it to your
hard drive. Be sure to remember which directory you
saved the update to so you will be able
locate the file.
- When
the download is complete, double click on the .exe
and follow the instructions to install the update.
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Other Information:
The following items are links to
other pages that contain important information that should be reviewed before
using Eagle Point software:
FAQ'S
FAQ'S
Do you
have a question regarding installation, obtaining auth codes or using
RoadCalc or any of the other modules that CRAB is licensed for? You may find
the answer here if you can’t find it in our CRAB Knowledge base.
(You will need Adobe Acrobat
to view the solution papers.)
http://www.eaglepoint.com/support/papers.htm
Some of the new stuff in Eagle Point
2008 8.1.0 TOP of PAGE
What's Changed in Eagle Point
for 8.1.0
The following items discuss the most recent changes found in this version of
Eagle Point software. Please note that the following sections are organized
alphabetically, by module, starting with System level changes followed by
enhancements and bug fixes.
System
-
Support
Folder: The file format for the STRUCTURE.LIB file in the Eagle Point
Support\SW folder has changed. This change was made to all custom sewer
junction symbols to be placed in the plan drawing for both Storm Sewers
and Sanitary Sewers. To avoid problems in a shared support folder
scenario, all users should update to the current version at the same
time.
-
AutoCAD
2009 is now a supported CAD engine. AutoCAD 200x users upgrading to
AutoCAD 2009 only need to run the Configure CAD Engine from the Eagle
Point Administrator Program to "point" to the AutoCAD 2009 acad.exe
file. The 2008 8.1.0 CD also contains AutoCAD 2009 as a supported CAD
engine during installation. If AutoCAD 2009 is the only version of
AutoCAD that is installed on the workstation and there is no previous
version of Eagle Point installed, you will need the 2008 8.1.0 CD.
-
AutoCAD
Map 3D 2009 is now a supported CAD engine. AutoCAD Map users upgrading
to AutoCAD Map 3D 2009 only need to run the Configure CAD Engine from
the Eagle Point Administrator Program to "point" to the AutoCAD Map 3D
2009 acad.exe file. The 2008 8.1.0 CD also contains AutoCAD Map 3D 2009
as a supported CAD engine during installation. If AutoCAD Map 3D 2009 is
the only version of AutoCAD Map installed on the workstation and there
is no previous version of Eagle Point installed, you will need the 2008
8.1.0 CD.
-
AutoCAD
Civil 3D 2009 is now a supported CAD engine. AutoCAD Civil 3D users
upgrading to AutoCAD Civil 3D 2009 only need to run the Configure CAD
Engine from the Eagle Point Administrator Program to "point" to the
AutoCAD Civil 3D 2009 acad.exe file. The 2008 8.1.0 CD also contains
AutoCAD Civil 3D 2009 as a supported CAD engine during installation. If
AutoCAD Civil 3D 2009 is the only version of AutoCAD Civil 3D installed
on the workstation and there is no previous version of Eagle Point
installed, you will need the 2008 8.1.0 CD.
-
Note:
Eagle Point will only utilize AutoCAD Civil 3D 2009 as a CAD engine.
It will not take advantage of any Civil 3D data.
-
Prototye
Drawings (AutoCAD Only): The profile prototype drawings for have been
updated for RoadCalc, Sanitary Sewers, Storm Sewers and Water Surface
Profiling. The prototype RCPROF.DWG, SSPROF.DWG, STPROF.DWG and
WPPROF.DWG drawings located in \support\dwg\ folder were updated to
allow object snaps in AutoCAD 2009, AutoCAD Map 3D 2009 and AutoCAD
Civil 3D 2009 to work on heavy polylines (plinetype = 0). These new
drawings will not replace drawings that you have modified. It will only
replace the original drawings that Eagle Point installed. However, it is
a good idea to back up any of these drawings that you have customized.
You may need to create new prototype drawings if you are having problems
with object snaps.
-
Accusnap
(MicroStation V8, XM only): Accusnap did not display the snap marker
within an Eagle Point command such as Place Node. Accusnap now correct
displays the snap marker within Eagle Point commands.
-
Origin
Snap (MicroStation XM Only): Using an Origin snap to snap to an Eagle
Point Node would not snap correctly. This problem has been correct for
all Nodes that are placed from this point forward. All existing Eagle
Point Nodes will still have the same problem.
-
Publish
from Sheet Sets Manager (AutoCAD 2007-2009 Only): Using the Publish
command within the Sheet Set Manager no longer places Done repeatedly on
the command line when you are using the Background Publish option.
COGO
-
Leader
Attributes (MicroStation XM Only): When leadering an Eagle Point Node in
MicroStation XM, the text attributes were not placed in the correct
location. This problems has been resolved.
-
Command
Line Place Node - EPPN (AutoCAD 2007-2009): When you turned off a
prompt, all prompts following were also turned off. This problem has
been resolved.
Drafting
-
Annotate
Station-Offset (MicroStation XM Only): When using an Annotation Style
that have Station and/or Offset individually, you can't snap to an
endpoint of a line. That has been corrected.
Profiles
-
Modify
Structure: When you modify a structure that has annotation that is
leadered to the right, the text would be moved to 0,0 coordinates. The
text now remains in the relative location to the structure being
modified.
-
Modify
Structure: Smooth leadered annotation on structures was reverting to
straight line leaders when the structure was modified. The problem has
been corrected.
-
Annotate
Inlet/Manhole (MicroStation Only): If the Arrow option was selected to
placed when annotating an inlet or manhole by leader, no annotation
would be placed. Annotation is now correctly placed when an arrow is
also selected to be placed.
RoadCalc
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets (MicroStation Only): A new option called Sheet Creation
was added to Plan and Profile Sheets. The two options are Scaled to
Paper Size and Plan Drawing Coordinates. When Scaled to Paper Size is
selected, the Plan and Profile sheets will be create as they were in
previous version. The plan and profile drawings being referenced into
the Plan and Profile Sheet are scaled down to paper size. The Plan
Drawing Coordinate option keeps that plan and profile drawing at real
size. The plan drawing is also positioned into its real coordinate
location. This allows you to check values in the plan drawing.
Annotation command within Drafting and commands within COGO allow you to
check your sheets or place the finishing touches on your plan and
profile sheets before they are submitted. For more information, watch
the
Plan Drawing Coordinate video.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets: An option was added to automatically reference a title
block into your sheet. Toggle on the option, select a title block and
enter a scale factor. Specify the Delta X and Delta Y values from the
Sheet Origin. The Delta X and Delta Y values are displacement values in
the X and Y direction respectively from the lower left corner of the
sheet.
-
AASHTO
2004 Speed Tables are now included on the CD. To install the horizontal
and vertical speed tables, place the 2008 8.1.0 CD in your CD drive. The
install is located in the Goodies Folder on the root of the CD. The
install will append the 2004 tables into the existing speed tables list.
-
Profile
Settings: When you viewed the Sight Parameter Settings within the
Profile Settings dialog box, the settings were written out with a space
between values. This could eventually cause Eagle Point to crash if you
accessed it enough times. Spaces are now removed from existing files and
spaces are no longer written out between values.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets: When an alignment ended on a curve the rotation angle of
the plan drawing was not always correct. This problem has been resolved.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets (MicroStation Only) - Levels are now correctly turned off
in Plan and Profile Sheets for Storm and Sanitary Sewers referenced into
the profile design file.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets: Plan and Profiles are now created correctly when using
negative coordinates for sheet positions.
-
Update
Cross Section Sheets (AutoCAD / BricsCad): Drawings that are currently
in paperspace or last saved in paperspace were updated incorrectly. The
command has been changed to change to modelspace before any updates are
made to the cross section sheets.
Sanitary Sewers
-
Sanitary
Sewers - Structure Library: A new option has been added to the Structure
Library that allows you to select a custom symbol to place at junction
locations. Modify any existing Junctions in the structure library or add
a new junction and toggle on the Custom Symbol Option. Specify a path
and block name or cell library and cell for the custom symbol. Specify
the desired scale for the symbol when it is placed into the plan drawing
along with the Sanitary Sewer Network. The CAD properties use the 2D
Junction CAD properties found in Network Settings. For more information,
watch the
Custom Inlet and Manhole video.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets: An option was added to automatically reference a title
block into your sheet. Toggle on the option, select a title block and
enter a scale factor. Specify the Delta X and Delta Y values from the
Sheet Origin. The Delta X and Delta Y values are displacement values in
the X and Y direction respectively from the lower left corner of the
sheet.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets (MicroStation Only): A new option called Sheet Creation
was added to Plan and Profile Sheets. The two options are Scaled to
Paper Size and Plan Drawing Coordinates. When Scaled to Paper Size is
selected, the Plan and Profile sheets will be create as they were in
previous version. The plan and profile drawings being referenced into
the Plan and Profile Sheet are scaled down to paper size. The Plan
Drawing Coordinate option keeps that plan and profile drawing at real
size. The plan drawing is also positioned into its real coordinate
location. This allows you to check values in the plan drawing.
Annotation command within Drafting and commands within COGO allow you to
check your sheets or place the finishing touches on your plan and
profile sheets before they are submitted. For more information, watch
the
Plan Drawing Coordinate video.
Storm Sewers
-
Storm
Sewers - Structure Library: A new option has been added to the Structure
Library that allows you to select a custom symbol to place at junction
locations. Modify any existing Junctions in the structure library or add
a new junction and toggle on the Custom Symbol Option. Specify a path
and block name or cell library and cell for the custom symbol. Specify
the desired scale for the symbol when it is placed into the plan drawing
along with the Storm Sewer Network. The CAD properties use the 2D
Junction CAD properties found in Network Settings. For more information,
watch the
Custom Inlet and Manhole video.
-
Storm
Sewers - Plan and Profile Sheets: An additional option has been added to
the Custom Symbols option to allow you to specify different custom
symbols for both inlets and manholes. Previously, you could only specify
one custom symbol. The Profile Junction custom symbol is now used for
any manhole junctions. The new custom symbol of Profile Inlet Junction
will be used for any junctions that have inlets attached. It is optional
to use both of these custom symbols. For more information, watch the
Custom Inlet and Manhole video.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets: An option was added to automatically reference a title
block into your sheet. Toggle on the option, select a title block and
enter a scale factor. Specify the Delta X and Delta Y values from the
Sheet Origin. The Delta X and Delta Y values are displacement values in
the X and Y direction respectively from the lower left corner of the
sheet.
-
Plan and
Profile Sheets (MicroStation Only): A new option called Sheet Creation
was added to Plan and Profile Sheets. The two options are Scaled to
Paper Size and Plan Drawing Coordinates. When Scaled to Paper Size is
selected, the Plan and Profile sheets will be create as they were in
previous version. The plan and profile drawings being referenced into
the Plan and Profile Sheet are scaled down to paper size. The Plan
Drawing Coordinate option keeps that plan and profile drawing at real
size. The plan drawing is also positioned into its real coordinate
location. This allows you to check values in the plan drawing.
Annotation command within Drafting and commands within COGO allow you to
check your sheets or place the finishing touches on your plan and
profile sheets before they are submitted. For more information, watch
the
Plan Drawing Coordinate video.
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CRAB'S Eagle Point Training Schedule
TOP of PAGE
Schedule of Classes for
WInter/Spring
2008 & 2009:
Training classes are closed during the
annual County road project construction season and will commence once again
following the fall Road Design Conference. If you have a large group in need
of traininig, I will conduct a custom training class for your county, just
let me know.
REGISTER FOR TRAINING
CRAB prides itself on offering the counties training
courses suited for both the engineering and surveying professionals.
These courses reaffirm our commitment to our county partners. No one can match the level of knowledge and real life
experience that our certified and licensed trainer can provide.
For details, take a look at CRAB’s Eagle Point Training
Advantages:
• Learning curve is sharply
decreased so you become more productive to your County organization.
• Each student has their own computer.
• Instructor is a licensed engineer as well as having
more than 20 years of professional experience.
• Working relationship with the people that designed
the software
In addition to step-by-step instruction using
practical design solutions, users learn timesaving shortcuts. Each
student also receives a comprehensive training manual and data files
that can be taken back to the office to be used as a
valuable reference guide. Small class sizes insure that students receive
the maximum amount of attention from the instructors. Students are
taught using real-life examples, providing them with skills that can be
applied immediately upon return to the office.
All classes use the latest release of the Eagle
Point Software and AutoCAD 2006, as well as the Microsoft's latest
business application Operating System. Our aim is to expose you to
the best technology available and for you to take back with you valuable
information not only on the design software, but other aspects of computing
as well. As always, the coffee is plentiful and the donuts
are always served fresh. The only cost to you is if you don't attend!
No Classes available right now at CRAB? Then I would
highly encourage you to check out The
Getting Started manual!. This manual contains valuable and detailed
information about installing and using Eagle Point Software. An electronic
version of this manual is available from the CD in the EDOC folder (GS.PDF).
You must install the Adobe Acrobat Reader in order to view the contents of
this or any other on-line manual. Help files can also be accessed from the
HELP folder on the CD-ROM. It is strongly recommended that you read
the Getting Started manual.
ROAD DESIGN CONFERENCE 2007
Well another Road Design Conference has come and
gone and a great time was had by all who made a Point to be there. This
conference convened in Skagit County this year at "The Skagit" for two and
half days of presentations, networking and just plain having fun while we
worked.
The registration desk assembled by our very
own Karen Pendleton, the queen of conference coordinator's. She's the best!
Jerry McKinney, Columbia County and Kelly Boyd,
Pierce County share with each other their respective thoughts on the
different design systems each use.
Kim Pfaff-Smith, Yakima County, Scott Hansen,
Walla-Walla and Jim Oyler from CRAB discuss their game plan prior to going into
the meeting rooms.
King County Folks are all ears as they listen in on
what Jim Switzer, Autodesk representative has to say about their new Civil3D
product.
Here are just a few of the comments from our attendees evaluation of the
conference;
WEDNESDAY - OCTOBER 3, 2007
1.
Better Decision Making through 3D Modeling & Mapping – John Sharrard, ESRI
Excellent
2
Good
18 Fair 6 Poor 1
Comments:
Good primer on mapping, Lidar, etc.
Excellent education on Lidar – usable
terrain
2. Better Presentations with 3D Visualization – RDV Systems
Excellent 14 Good 10 Fair 2 Poor 0 N/A
1
Comments: Great marketing skills. Very
informative
Great presentation, great product,
excellent concept!
Very good potential – possible CRAB
support?
This is a nice add-on
Infectious enthusiasm by Natan
3.
Eagle Point Software
Excellent 0 Good 11 Fair 12 Poor 3 N/A 1
Comments: Need to give more info on design
Software (Pinnacle) still needs a lot of
work to be of value to counties
I wish Eagle Point would get back to
being a design software provider
Need less software selling
Not interested in office or project
management
Sounds like no design software updates
in the future – time to move on
4. Carlson Software
Excellent 4 Good 15 Fair 6 Poor 0 N/A
1
Comments: Very pertinent
Glad
this product has been included in the conference
Confidence shows
Works for me
5.
Bentley
Software
Excellent 2 Good 19 Fair 4 Poor 1 N/A 1
Comments: Good presentation; talks a little too
fast when going over software
Great presentation & product but not
interested in changing design
software
6. Autodesk Software
Excellent 8 Good 13 Fair 3 Poor
1 N/A 2
Comments: Forward thinking
Good speaker – passionate about current
changes in technology
Excellent presentation – helps me see
future & current condition of
design systems
Get Mathews back at future RDC
I would like to get his presentation
Handouts from slides
Great info – needed more time
Great presentation! Well spoken
Great, energetic, informative
presentation
7. Today's Breakfast
Excellent 16 Good 10 Fair 1 Poor
0
Comments: Excellent service and food
Don’t change a thing
Been to a lot of conferences & this was
the best!
8. Today’s Lunch
Excellent 11 Good 12 Fair 3 Poor
0 N/A 1
Comments: Excellent service and food
Top 5 pizzas – great taste!
Loved the pizza
9. Vendor Exhibits
Excellent 6 Good 19
Fair 1 Poor 0 N/A 1
Comments: I like being able to talk with
vendors & discussing product issues
Room felt a little crowded – might want
a bigger room for vendors
Very approachable – answered all my
questions. Look forward to follow-
up answers – email, etc.
More feedback to come, so
stay tuned!
Note: the 2008 RDC site has already been reserve so
mark your calendar's;
WHERE: SPOKANE COUNTY
WHEN: OCTOBER 6TH, 7TH,
and 8TH 2008!
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